Reagan youth

[gordonzola]

And since I'm in a mood, can I say one ting about the plane crash in Kentucky? Do you think that if the air traffic controllers had a strong union that they could have prevented the FAA from ordering staffing levels in violation of their own safety codes?

Thanks Ronnie. Everytime I think we can total the death count, another 50 or so have to get added to the list.

Comments

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

I wish I could figure out some way to do my jello imitation on an LJ comment.

[twostepsfwd.livejournal.com]

I have a friend whose family was intimidated and harrassed for years in their own home by the government because her dad was an air traffic controller and involved in trying to unionize.

i think MANY of the industrial accidents we hear about (this counts) could have been avoided with stronger unions.

[the-living-end.livejournal.com]

it boggles my mind when anyone ever says anything nice about reagan. he ruined everything!

[fidelity-astro.livejournal.com]

yeah, it totally sucks how everything is ruined now.

[substitute.livejournal.com]

Yes, actually, it does. It really, really does.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

I was living near (in) golden gate park when governor Ronald Regean closed down the mental institutions. Seeing the mess that followed definately sucked.

[dcart.livejournal.com]

I don't know why it became so for him, exactly, but the busting of PATCO seems to be the thing that is emblematic of all of Reagan's anti-unionism for my dad. He was never a member and never worked with them during his time with the AFL-CIO, but he remains bitter about that one.

I'd like to shoot the fuckers responsible for renaming Washington National for the bastard.

[fidelity-astro.livejournal.com]

wow, that would increase the number of innocent people killed due to Reagan's firing the illegally striking air traffic controllers even more!

[dcart.livejournal.com]

Perhaps, but they would be the first not to be innocent victims.

i assume you know this, but

[fidelity-astro.livejournal.com]

that's some pretty bad reasoning right there!

Re: i assume you know this, but

[liveavatar.livejournal.com]

Yeah, because understaffing and overworking people doesn't have any effect on job performance.

straw man!

[fidelity-astro.livejournal.com]

If that had actually been the central point of Gordon's post then you'd have totally gotten me there and that icon would totally been rubbing it in my face!

Re: i assume you know this, but

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

yes, because history doesn't matter in today's America.

baby trolls are cute!

[substitute.livejournal.com]

You're promising, I have to say, but the pretense is still too obvious. I think this persona might need more faux sincerity and less grinny icons if you want the three-screen eight-deep threads you dream of.

Sharpen your skills, my boy. A few weeks on Wikipedia talk pages and you'll be hooking 'em like never before.

[nationofsheep.livejournal.com]

Yeah that was the first thing I thought of when I saw the cause of the crash. And from the comments section, the other casualty of the Reagan era seems to be the understanding of cause and effect. We have gone from plausible deniability to just flat out denying that anything happened at all ever.

[ubiquity75.livejournal.com]

Charming responses here. I haven't seen so many references to "straw men" since USENET circa 1994.

Incidentally, I've been reading And the Band Played On for the past three weeks or so, for the first time. I am sorry to admit that it is my first time reading it. While I've read many other AIDS histories and recriminations of the lack of action/blood on the hands of the Reagan administration, the painstakingly researched and meticulous nature of this book is pretty intense and damning (whatever one's take on Shilts' sexual politics may be, something I don't feel like arguing right now, anyway).

Hope that's not, you know, a straw man.

Unrelated to our greatest president ever...

[rfd.livejournal.com]

How's Saturday for you for the Russian food fest?

Re: Unrelated to our greatest president ever...

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

I work saturdays. we could do it early next saturday or on a sunday in the future.

[strix-an-stones.livejournal.com]

Dumb question, but would small airports with only two runways have had air traffic controllers that would have been in the union? Our local airport in the Reagan years had a controller who was non-union because the budget couldn't afford one. When he unionized they dropped having a controller. It's now 2006 and they still don't have one and it has two runways comparable to the Kentucky field.

You can blame a lot of stuff on a lot of folks but unless you can say for sure and certain that the airport would have had unionized ATCs you really can't make that statement. They could have chosen to employ non-union workers or simply dumped having one period. In that case there would be a system by which pilots are given information on runway size and location - they radio a general announcement of intent to land and handle things fine without ATCs.

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

oh, absolutely they could have violated their own safety rules without Reagan. But a strong union (of the pre-1981 PATCO type) would be a counterbalance against the greed that allows these things to happen. In the case on non-union airports, you bet they would make it their business to see that they were working to the letter of the law if for no other reason than to cost them money they were trying to save.

Reagan was all about unencumbering greed. There are consequences to that.

[whimsicalpops.livejournal.com]

Or the fact that the FAA knew the controller was on his 2nd shift with little sleep and the only person.

When does our safety count for us? When do we as a nation realize that safety standards are related to paying people decently and having adequate staffing? When do we stop playing chicken and saying that 98% of the time we slide by and are willing to risk 50 poeple dying so we can save a buck in government services.

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad you are my new boyfriend.

just saw this...

[sparkle-shortz.livejournal.com]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/03/weekinreview/03basic.html?_r=1&ref=weekinreview&oref=slogin

The Federal Aviation Administration has issued its managers conflicting instructions; they are supposed to avoid having a tower controller perform both ground and radar duties, but also to minimize manpower to the lowest level consistent with safety. The F.A.A. once had negotiated agreements with the controllers’ union on staffing levels; now it says it tries to “staff to traffic.’’

Re: just saw this...

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

oh c'mon. how can the past have any impact on the present or future? ;)