Terr-whaaaaaa?
May. 15th, 2008 08:21 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
Terroir has always been my least favorite cheese term. It means “sense of place” and when discussing food it is used to highlight the geographical uniqueness of certain tastes. It implies isolation and specificity i.e. that a cheese has a particular taste because the cows/goats/sheep are eating certain forage that is only available in that area. To me, it also implies history. That a food developed, in whatever way, independent of influences from outside the area of origin.
So far, so good. In France, its use would be perfectly acceptable. I’ve written about it here before but let me outline my issues again with using it for US cheeses.
1.It’s usually use pretentiously in this country, as if to show, “I speak French. Therefore I know more than you.”
2. My first exposure to it was at an American Cheese Society Conference where it was the theme. Beyond the mis-marketing of using a French word to promote the American hand made cheese, there was the problem that it was being used for newly developed cheese. Can something have terroir if you just invented it?
3. Unless a cheese is “farmstead”( made on the actual farm using only milk from ones own mammals) you, the consumer, may not know exactly where the milk comes from. Therefore discussing “terroir” may show you to be pretentious and wrong
Take, for example this announcement of Cypress Grove winning the NASFT “Outstanding Product Line” award:

Now, I love Cypress Grove cheese. It is some of the best in the country. They deserve awards, lots of them. Cypress Grove is not responsible for this announcement ad in any way, (this is from a trade magazine which is responsible for this error). But using a photograph of Midnight Moon and using it as an example of cheese “reflecting the terroir of the area”* is flat out wrong. Midnight Moon is a fine goat gouda, but it’s made in Holland, something that is stated on every box.** I think whoever anonymously wrote that blurb was just throwing some fancy food words out there unthinkingly, but that’s the point I’m making.
Beyond that, many cheesemakers supplement their milk supplies from outside their immediate area anyway, especially the goat cheese makers. That doesn’t take away from the quality of the products. It just means whatever you are tasting, it sure isn’t terroir.
*isn’t “terroir of the area” a redundancy anyway? It shows the sense of place of the place…?
**Though certainly not at every point of purchase, but that’s another entry.
So far, so good. In France, its use would be perfectly acceptable. I’ve written about it here before but let me outline my issues again with using it for US cheeses.
1.It’s usually use pretentiously in this country, as if to show, “I speak French. Therefore I know more than you.”
2. My first exposure to it was at an American Cheese Society Conference where it was the theme. Beyond the mis-marketing of using a French word to promote the American hand made cheese, there was the problem that it was being used for newly developed cheese. Can something have terroir if you just invented it?
3. Unless a cheese is “farmstead”( made on the actual farm using only milk from ones own mammals) you, the consumer, may not know exactly where the milk comes from. Therefore discussing “terroir” may show you to be pretentious and wrong
Take, for example this announcement of Cypress Grove winning the NASFT “Outstanding Product Line” award:

Now, I love Cypress Grove cheese. It is some of the best in the country. They deserve awards, lots of them. Cypress Grove is not responsible for this announcement ad in any way, (this is from a trade magazine which is responsible for this error). But using a photograph of Midnight Moon and using it as an example of cheese “reflecting the terroir of the area”* is flat out wrong. Midnight Moon is a fine goat gouda, but it’s made in Holland, something that is stated on every box.** I think whoever anonymously wrote that blurb was just throwing some fancy food words out there unthinkingly, but that’s the point I’m making.
Beyond that, many cheesemakers supplement their milk supplies from outside their immediate area anyway, especially the goat cheese makers. That doesn’t take away from the quality of the products. It just means whatever you are tasting, it sure isn’t terroir.
*isn’t “terroir of the area” a redundancy anyway? It shows the sense of place of the place…?
**Though certainly not at every point of purchase, but that’s another entry.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 03:31 pm (UTC)When I worked in sustainable food stuff almost a decade ago, people would talk about "terroir" as a possible alternate descriptor to organic once the big companies started adopting that label. I do like the idea it captures, but ultimately a frenchy name taken from the wine industry isn't going to work as anything other than a status marker (or status combined with quality, but those are similar in marketing-speak I think). I think just good ol "local" or "small farm" are good descriptors-- in veggies "heirloom" was a good one, but now has come to mean something different than it originally did. How long till you see a national brand use terroir?
no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 04:01 pm (UTC)Spot on
Date: 2008-05-15 03:39 pm (UTC)But.
Even the locally produced cheeses aren't completely produced with local goats on locally produced feed. Every dairy here imports hay and grain.
But maybe I know too much, and all companies are like this, it just makes me sad about these guys. I know they know better.
Another word like "organic" and "green" which really means nothing.
And "terroir" is just an ugly word. I can hardly say it.
Re: Spot on
Date: 2008-05-15 03:47 pm (UTC)http://www.cypressgrovechevre.com/company/section_1.2.html
Re: Spot on
Date: 2008-05-15 03:52 pm (UTC)Re: Spot on
Date: 2008-05-15 04:19 pm (UTC)http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003636.html
all the locally produced cheeses do fit the term...
Re: Spot on
Date: 2008-05-15 03:59 pm (UTC)For sheep and goat cheeses at this point, if it isn't a "farmstead" operation, it's more than likely that some percentage of milk (or frozen curd) is coming from Canada, Wisconsin or even Australia. Even "farmstead" doesn't tell you how the animals are kept or what they eat of course, just that they are on site.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 03:41 pm (UTC)Big words from someone who ate one of those McDonald's Southern-style chicken sandwiches for late-lunch yesterday (long work day, not many food choices).
Also, "terroir of the place" is like saying ATM machine (Automatic Teller Machine machine?). Cypress Grove Chevre should fire their marketing people, at least the copy editor. The graphics I dig.
[*] Guilty as charged.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 03:48 pm (UTC)and I agree the concept is important, absolutely! But the amount of food with those qualities is much smaller than the amount that try to capitalize on those concepts.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 04:02 pm (UTC)the concept is this: the more a term or trade mark is used inappropriately, the lower its intrinsic value becomes. of course, i do not value trade marks or copyrights very much at all, a bone of some contention, albeit amicable, between me and the step-mom (also, i think it is hilarious when they go out in their "butter-brothers" tee-shirts).
at the same time, i'm arguing that there is a critical mass at which a term, although misused, effectively reaches a wider audience (good dilution). for instance, if my mother, who generally is not savvy about the loftier concepts of haute cusine, were to ask me what terroir meant upon encountering the term, then the meme is a success.
in other words, i'll take a schlocky (and hopefully short-lived) marketing fad over general ignorance any day. sure, joe blow is not going to have a deeper understanding of what it means because joe blow doesn't read MFK Fischer or watch Jacques Pepin on PBS, or even watch PBS, ever.
on the down side, when you make a particular regional product a commodity, you run the risk of a "ravenswoodification" of the product, to coin a term. the item becomes sought after outside of its target region, attempts to broaden the reach of the product are made and the quality of the product, not to mention its carbon footprint, suffer.
so, it comes down to managing the meme, which is rather like herding cats. steering the conversation about terroir is a chance to lead the consumer in the right direction, and you are on the front lines.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 04:09 pm (UTC)You raise a lot of good points there but when, for example, "artisan" is used by Jack in the Box, if that is people's first exposure, how could the concept be understood? I've been at conferences where people are all, "I guess we can't use that word/concept any more..."
It may be a failing strategy, but I would like our trade organization to define and certify terms. Grass-fed is another biggie. It's federally regulated for meat but not, as yet for dairy.
But I think you're are right about the exposure though. It does increase the awareness that the issues are even out there.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 04:16 pm (UTC)you've also touched on an important although indirectly related topic, especially in this election year: that people often do not put enough thought into interpreting what words mean, and what the speaker intends for a word or phrase to mean, and why.
consider the source, indeed.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 04:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 04:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 04:10 pm (UTC)when someone goes wrong with it, the reply is "get your meez together, maricon!"
no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 05:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 05:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 03:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 03:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 06:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 03:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 04:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 04:54 pm (UTC)I use past tense (even though the building and poorly-fonted sign still sit there), because the owner and chef Stu Stein apparently fucked up seriously last year, publically putting down his PR firm, and then getting caught pretty egregiously plagiarizing two different food writers, including Pac NW cheese zealot Tami Parr.
About a month after the shit hit the fan, the restaurant mysteriously closed. No doubt, it was likely having problems keeping afloat already. But you really can't sustain an upscale restaurant here without the foodies behind you.
Speaking of terroir.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 05:19 pm (UTC)http://syndicated.livejournal.com/pnwcheeseprjct/
I didn't know any of that stuff.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-16 04:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-16 06:12 am (UTC)-Steve Lieber
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Date: 2008-05-15 04:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 05:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 05:29 pm (UTC)I believe that food has a cultural component. When there is no history of people consuming a certain food, no matter what it is, how can it truly convey that sense? People are part of nature and place and without them, I don't know if the food/wine can stand for terroir. The things we associate (rightly) with terroir grew up with localized communities in relative (to today) isolation.
I would argue that something like Franklin's Teleme, even though the company and milk supply have moved more than once, is more representative of terroir as a traditional Bay Area Italian-American food, than say, Cyrpess Grove (who, again, make some of the best cheese in the Country).
no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 05:58 pm (UTC)You are probably right, but at this point I will defer to your greater knowledge of the subject: What things do we associate with terroir?
I know next to nothing about cheese. I have only encountered terroir as a wine term, and always thought it referred to physical, not cultural, attributes of a place: climate, soil, etc.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 07:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 10:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 05:48 pm (UTC)grammar crimes
Date: 2008-05-15 06:07 pm (UTC)Re: grammar crimes
Date: 2008-05-15 06:10 pm (UTC)And from Strunk & White (I think): If you don't know how to pronounce a word, SAY IT LOUD! Do not compound the sin of error with that of timidity.
Re: grammar crimes
Date: 2008-05-15 07:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 07:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-15 10:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-16 04:37 am (UTC)“terroir of the area”!!! argh. oooh! you speak french! argh.