Is Marriage love?

[gordonzola]

Ok folks, settle down. I got a little teary with that front page wedding photo too. God help me, I even forgot who she was and felt solidarity with Roberta Achtenberg* for a second. What’s going on this week is truly a wonderful thing and you have to admit that for whatever reason, my buddy Gavin did the right thing.

But "Marriage is Love" as a slogan? No. Demonstrably not. In fact, I’d call it an assault on the fine traditions of the Gay Liberation Movement as well as an insult to all the people who grew up in fucked up families or struggled to get out of bad state sanctioned relationships.

How about "Marriage can be a wonderful institution filled with love but can also be a sometimes deadly trap. In the end it’s really about property rights anyway. But if it exists, it should clearly be able to be used by everyone equally. I mean, duh."



* Head of the Chamber of Chamber of Commerce who’s in the background of the photo.

Comments

[epilady.livejournal.com]

Ha ha ha! Yeah, what you said. And I'm generally all super mega anti that nasty rainbow flag thing, too. But I'm swept up in the moment, man!

Re:

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

It was just so lesbian of you to post that.

(ducks)

[beowabbit]

Yeah, that’s why I changed the slogan when I posted it. (I also dislike the implication that absence of marriage is absence of love.)

(BTW, you have a stray quotation mark in the link from "Marriage is Love".)

Re:

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

hah. good job. and thanks for the linky fix.

[cangetmad.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I have been on the cusp of saying that for some time now. No interest in marriage, thanks - that's not what I've been fighting for.

Re:

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

Let 'em have it, BNG.

[jette.livejournal.com]

Why limit it to "couples?"

But I do believe in marriage, love it, think it's a good thing. I think committment can see a relationship through during those rough spots when nothing else will. I like the permanence, I like the sense of belonging, I like the security, I like the thought that I will have someone who really knows me and cares about me by my side when I am old.

Re:

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

no, you're right about the couple thing. I wrote that only because the curent debate is about changing "man and woman" to "two people". I changed it to make it more open ended even if old testament-style religious polygamists creep me out. But then a lot of non-religious polygamists creep me out for different reasons so maybe I'm being close minded.

I think comittment doesn't need to be honored through marriage. Certainly the average length of marriage in the USA shows that it's not necesarily a permanent state. But I'm glad that yours provides you with so much. Some of my best friends are married, after all. ;)

[magpiesf.livejournal.com]

yeah! yeah! what you said. that was my first reaction to that whole "marriage is love" thing when i saw one in a friends lj - bad slogan, too damn general - sure marriage is great as a symbolic act, loaded with meaning both societally and legally - but defining it as love, or vice versa, just aint so.

marriage may be a subset of love, but does not equate to it.

that being said - woo hoo! its about time. well just see how long it holds up... but if it doesnt, those marriage certificates are gonna be hot property on ebay! better get some while you can! :)

Re:

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

you betcha. hey, I thought you were going away this weekend.

[felicks.livejournal.com]

'Zola, you robbed me! I started the Gavin thread!

Re:

[felicks.livejournal.com]

And I love that the Taliban guy went to your high school - what ever happened to him anyway?

Re:

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

I fixed it so it starts in the correct place now. All credit to felicks!

[snowballjane.livejournal.com]

How about "Marriage can be a wonderful institution filled with love but can also be a sometimes deadly trap. In the end it’s really about property rights anyway. But if it exists, it should clearly be able to be used by all couples equally. I mean, duh."

Dead right! Make a banner?

Re:

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

please. and stickers and buttons.

[ginoushka.livejournal.com]

Gordon, I love you. Hell yes.

Re:

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

xo

[jenlight.livejournal.com]

I simply support gay marriage

Re:

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

cool by me.

[fluxions.livejournal.com]

Marriage is about legal rights. It's doesn't have to do with love, it's just that love makes it a little easier. I don't care if the state validates my relationship. It's all about the legal benefits, baby. At least it is for me.

Re:

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

those legal benefits are what I mean by state validation of one's relationship. I think we are agreeing.

[elgorgo.livejournal.com]

i support homo marriage!

OR

who would jesus do?

OR

kill a QUEER FOR CHRIST!

Re:

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

Thanks, no one had posted nonsensical rambling yet.

[shared-boxers.livejournal.com]

"Marriage can be a wonderful institution filled with love but can also be a sometimes deadly trap. In the end it’s really about property rights anyway. But if it exists, it should clearly be able to be used everyone equally. I mean, duh."

I like that more. Damnit, wish I had thought of that before.

Re:

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

heh. thanks for being a rare individual who doesn't take internet criticism personally.

[confabulator.livejournal.com]

Right on, G. I, for one, have had it up to here with the discourse of marital affect. But I suppose that spending nearly every waking moment writing about violence between intimates will do that to a girl...

Last night the news here juxtaposed what's been happening in SF with local coverage of hetero couples lining up for marriage licenses, cuz, y'know, it's V-Day in Vegas...

Re:

[jactitation.livejournal.com]

Damn, I was hoping you were going to ride him for simplifying it as "property rights"--I know you have a much more complex critique!

[purejuice.livejournal.com]

my mother is 92, and one of her classic remarks apropos marriage is,
"good sex doesn't make you happy, no sex doesn't make you unhappy, but bad sex can ruin your life."

Re:

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

awwww, Mommmmmm!

[pantryslut.livejournal.com]

How about "Marriage can be a wonderful institution filled with love but can also be a sometimes deadly trap. In the end it’s really about property rights anyway. But if it exists, it should clearly be able to be used everyone equally. I mean, duh."

It's a little wordy, but I'm down.

Re:

[fightingwords.livejournal.com]

yeah, pretty much.

[vestalvixen.livejournal.com]

Alan is a simple man, with simple words.

[whimsicalpops.livejournal.com]

shudder... Roberta Achtenberg! Did you have to mention her in the picture? I was looking at the photo of Lyon and Martin then noticed her. ICKKKKK I screamed. Have tried to ignore her presence as much as possible. Then I try to ignore lots of the gay politicos as much as possible. Since I usually want to strangle them. There are a couple exceptions to that rule but I have to think about it first.

Added you to my friends list.

I also concur with you about your thoughts on marriage. But damnit I did it on friday. More with the sense of civil disobedience and the gleeful thought that I am personally causing John Ashcroft acid reflect! If this ever becomes legal me and my gal are going to be the first dyke divorce! We are saving up now!!!